Jerome's Sunbeam Pages
My Alpines List Archives - Rebuild-Underside
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Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in2.ibm.net id 879897037.93242-1 ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:50:37 +0000
From: "Ray Frazier" <ray@why.net>
To: <eckert@tfn.com>, <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Upper Fulcrum Pins
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:43:02 -0800
charset="iso-8859-1"
These are all but impossible to find. I recently rebuilt my front end and
gave up trying to find them. the good news is my front end was in really
bad shape but when I got it apart the fulcrum pins (upper and lower) ended
up being fine the ball joints and king pins (swivel pins) did the trick. a
word of caution here. When you replace the swivel pin bushes they must be
reamed out to a .750 diameter and I couldn't find anyone who had one. I
ended up going to a guy in a local M.G. club that owns a really nice
aircraft machine shop and he had a hone that would do the trick. another
problem I had was the swivel pins were almost impossible to press get out.
In the course of getting someone who could ream the bushing I went to
several automotive machine shops and front end shops. None would even
attempt to press the pins out since they wouldn't be able to finish the job
and it was just as well. the guy that did ream them out pressed the pins
out also and he said it took most of his 20 ton press to get them out. this
is a piece of equipment very few people have access to.
hopefully you will have better luck than I did.
-----Original Message-----
From: eckert@tfn.com <eckert@tfn.com>
To: alpines@autox.team.net <alpines@autox.team.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 5:24 AM
Subject: Upper Fulcrum Pins
>All,
>
>Does anyone know where I can get a set of upper fulcrum pins for my Series
III
>GT? This is the last part I need to complete the rebuild of my front end. I
have
>checked with both Sunbeam Specialties and Classic Sunbeam and they don't
seem to
>have any.
>
>Thanks,
>Kurt Eckert
>1963 Series III GT
>
Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in4.ibm.net id 882295527.117208-1 ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:05:27 +0000
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:13:53 +0000
From: Steve Laifman <laifman@flash.net>
To: Steve Semeraro <semeraro@erols.com>
Subject: Re: The Brake Saga Continues & Reverse Light Question
Steve,
There are three Girling servos and about 4 Lockheed servos, plus aa
American Midland-Ross servo that have bee put into Sunbeams. The Tiger
MkI and MkIA , and Sunbeam had a Girling 5" booster. The Tiger II had a
7" booster. The "Type B" 7" Girling unit could be bolted in-place on the
Tiger, and maybe the Alpine, but the rebuild kits are unavailable for
this good, but non-original booster. When the kit was available it
could cost upwards of $3350. The Midland-Ross booster is said to be a
good unit and was designed for 50's T-Birds. Re-built MkI/IA and MkII
boosters are available from sources I could recommend, they are not
cheap, but less than a MkIIB Girling kit.
The Alpines mounted their unit on the forward part of the right fender,
while the Tiger was mounted on a small bracket welded between the
firewall and the fenderwell. LHD cars mounted it on the right side,
while RHD was opposite. The MkII had a 7" booster diameter, while the
MkI and IA had a 5" diameter unit. The five incher had a band around the
can that was bracketed to a hole in the firewall (ever wonder what those
holes with tubes inside were for?)
Fitting a 7" booster on an early Tiger is a bit tight, and you can
forget the stock firewall brace, as there is no room. Apparently the
MkII mounting was slightly different. I need to look to be sure.
The boost ratio on the 7" units was near 3:1, while the 5" units were
near 2.3:1, so the pedal is harder on the smaller unit. The Lockheed
unit is very different in looks and arrangement of mounts and line
connections, but they can be installed, with proper care. Some dealers
sell two bent brackets with their units for about $65 more. Not worth
it, if your at all handy with some sheet metal. Sunbeam Specialties
stocks this unit. British Victoria also has some kits, but I wouldn't
buy anything from them, it's mostly poor quality.
The plumbing goes like this:
The line from the master cylinder runs alongside, and clamped to, the
firewall. It terminates, with a loop, to the right side of the car (LHD)
and connects to the hydraulic
input line. The output line goes to that junction block you mentioned. A
vacuum hose connects the vacuum fitting to the manifold. It's in the
back of the Tiger and on the carb. balance tube on the Alpine. The
Girling units have a banjo fitting and a built-in one-way valve to keep
back-fires from the diaphragm, and to give a little reserve vacuum if
the engine dies. The Lockheed unit uses an external valve in the vacuum
hose. This is usually included with the "installation bracket kit", but
can be purchased separately.
Important: All these brake lines have "bubble" flares, not the same as
American "doubled V" flares. Again, Sunbeam Specialties has new lines.
Get a good tube bender.
One of your biggest problems is the Alpine master cylinder on the Tiger
brakes. The diameters are different, and a lot of foot force is needed.
The correct units are available, brand new. I would get one of these
first, and see if the brake pedal force isn't acceptable without a
booster. Remember to try fast stops from higher speeds. If you do
install the unit, I recommend the original Girling, as kits are still
available at a high, but reasonable cost.
CAT warehouse has a neat accessory that should be in the trunk of every
power brake Tiger or Alpine. It is a flexible 10" (approx.) stainless
braided brake line with "bubble flair" type steel ends. If your booster
ever goes, or eats all your fluid, you can just disconnect the input and
output lines and connect them together with this booster by-pass. The
pedal forces are higher, but you can stop. About $10 to members.
--
Steve Laifman < One first kiss, >
B9472289 < one first love, and >
< one first win, is all >
< you get in this life. >
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Received: from newmarket.imag.net [204.244.225.33] by in4.ibm.net id 898527643.98654-1 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:00:43 +0000
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: alpines@autox.team.net, GSTROM99@aol.com
Subject: RE: Front sway bar
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:56:00 -0700
----------
From: GSTROM99@aol.com
>Every other car I've been around that had a front sway bar, had a couple of
>brackets that captured the front/center part of the bar to the frame. My
>Series II doesn't. It seems that the bar can really flex around the way it
>is, only connecting the two control arms.
>Does anyone else think this is a problem? Anyone put frame brackets in
with
>their replacements? I'm not replacing mine (yet) but I've been wondering?
The sway bar used on the alpine and tiger is very clever.
It works by using the angled lower control arms to "twist" the bar using the
ends as levers. It works because the bar is forced to be rotated through
two
bushings on each control arm.
While it works well with new "tight" bushings, any slop in the bar bushings
will result in having no sway bar at all, till suficient sway ocurrs to load
the bushings. This gives a very non-linear feel to the car, and makes
it interesting to drive at speed.
If you try to put traditional type clamp bushing in the center of the
bar "like a conventional sway bar", you will break the bar, and probably
bend up your lower control arms too.
Puting in nylon or delrin bushings will make the sway bar very
responsive because it eliminates the slop and sponginess of the
rubber bushings, and will even act like a slightly bigger bar.
Great bang for buck if you ask me.
Jarrid Gross
Received: from newmarket.imag.net [204.244.225.33] by in3.ibm.net id 899409639.43342-1 ; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 20:00:39 +0000
From: "Rex Funk" <rexfunk@magick.net>
To: <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: S II Front Shocks
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:06:52 -0700
I removed the front shocks on my S II, and found that they were Monroe
Gas-Matic #5829. I had used the same number on my S III. The compressed
length is 7" and the extended length is 11". They had plenty of room to
compress and extend on the S II suspension.
I ordered a new pair from an auto parts store, and he said they were for
Chrysler applications in the '70s and '80s. They may be the new
"Sensitrack" model, rather than the Gas Matic. They were $29 ea. (not on
sale, but I needed them, and it beats $70 for Spax).
I took a chance, and tried "www.monroe.com" and wound up on Monroe's web
site. There is a customer guide with applications for makes, so I checked
out the Chrysler listings. The shock fits a number of their cars (listed
below). There is also a "Monroe Matic Plus" gas shock #31176 that fits the
same application, and is apparently an upgrade of the Gas Matic #5829.
Either of these shocks should fit. The Monroe site is an education, with
lots of info on shocks. I'd recommend it. If you lik the competition,
also try www.gabriel.com. I couldn't find any adjustable shocks on the
Gabriel web site.
Chrysler:
Cordoba '80-'83 (Ricardo Mantoban Signature Models- Spanish language
version only. Gas in these shocks is rumored to come from customers of
Tomane Titos Taco Parlor and Animal Hospital in Tijuana, BC, Mex.)
5th Ave. and New Yorker '83-'89
Imperial '74-'83
Le Baron '77-'81
Newport '82
I will let you know when I get the ones on order, but the old ones fit
without major modifications, and have the right dia. bolts.
Rex Funk
_ Received: from mail.imag.net [204.244.225.1] by in4.ibm.net id 899547657.96554-1 ; Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:20:57 +0000
From: "Rex Funk" <rexfunk@magick.net>
To: <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: S II Front Shocks, Cont'd
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:26:49 -0700
Well, I picked up the Monroe 5829S shocks I had ordered, and they are a
mixed bag. These are the "Sensitrack" models (hence the "S"), which are
supposedly better at rapidly reacting to changes in road conditions and
driver inputs. They were $29 ea. as opposed to the old $18 (on sale) Gas
Matics. They were very similar to the Gas-Matics, but didn't have the
bearing washer attached to the bottom end of the tube. You have to slip a
seperate washer on (supplied). While the dimensions seemed identical, the
Sensitracks turned out to limit the full extension of the A-arm just
slightly when fully tightened. I would guess the shocks limit about 1/4"
shy of the full extension. The rubber cushions on the shock would probably
compress this much if the suspension went to full travel. If not, the
worst scenario would be that the pistons would be pulled through the shock
tube, and ruin the shock. I'm betting on the former. I don't do a whole
lot of stunt driving, and It's unlikely that those kinds of forces would be
put on the shock under most driving conditions.
The threaded shafts (particularly the lower) are a little short for the
Alpine's mounting plate setup. I had to flatten the convex side of the
rubber cushions to get them to compress enough so I could start a nut on
the threaded shaft. Once this was done, this there was no problem. I used
the "locator" washers from the old shocks (none were supplied with the new
shocks). These have a lip that fits into the hole in the shock mount, and
keeps the shaft from rubbing on the mount. Keep all the old shock parts so
you can mix and match if necessary for a better fit.
I noticed the difference right away when I bounced the front end. It is
hard to tell without a standard, but the same test with the old shocks
produced a lot more bouncing. On the road I could really feel the
difference. There was less tendancy to dive when I put on the brakes, and
it felt very well controlled when I "slolomed" going down the road.
Combined with a 7/8" swaybar the Sensitracks gave a very satisfying ride.
These shocks are built for full and mid sized Chrysler cars. One
application was all Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare. Chrysler built a
gazillion of these boats, so it's likely that these shocks will be
available for quite some time. Many of the cars fitted with these shocks
weighed 1000 to 1500 lbs more than the Alpine. That should count for
something in added dampening. I am very satisfied with the ride, and were
it not for the somewhat tight fit at full extension, I could recommend
these shocks to early series Alpine owners without hesitation. Would I
rather have Spax adjustables? Sure, but they cost 2-3 times what I paid
etc.) It could be that there is a better fitting shock out there. It
would take a sympathetic and patient parts man with a good selection of
shocks to help you check out the options. You would need to compare
measurement at compression and extension, diameter and length of the
mounting shafts, tube diameter, and general design. Once the application
brands and models of shocks. Unfortunately, you're not likely to find
competition shocks for a Plymouth Volare or Chrysler New Yorker, altho I
believe they do run a lot of these pre-Iacoca models in Demolition Derby
competition.
I will request information from the Monroe web page about shocks with a
slightly longer extension (say 11.5 inches). Of course, the compressed
length would probably have to increase by approxomately half the increase
in the extended length (I figured that out all by myself).
I will update when I get more miles on these shocks and/or word from
Monroe.
Rex
Received: from disco.imag.net [204.244.225.25] by in4.ibm.net id 901841041.96484-1 ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:24:01 +0000
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: alpines@autox.team.net, GSTROM99@aol.com
Subject: RE: hubs for bolt on wheels?
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:25:00 -0700
----------
From: GSTROM99@aol.com
>If I decide to change from wires to bolt on wheels, what has to be changed?
>I have a series II. Are they all the same or are the later ones different?
>What are they worth?
I performed the swap to bolt ons about 4 years ago.
You will need front hubs, these are the same for all year alpines.
The bearings are the same, but you'll need to pick up the appropriate
bearing seal for your year.
In the rear, you will need to get the set of rear hubs.
There are two types, series 1 to 4, and series 5.
You'll need the series 1 to 4, they are NOT interchangable with SV hubs.
Replace the rear seals and gaskets while your at it.
You'll need a special puller for the rear hubs.
The puller can be made by taking both right and left knock-offs,
drilling an apropriate sized hole in the center, install the threaded
shaft from a conventional pully puller inside the hole in the knock off,
with a nut on the shaft on the axle side of the knock off.
Remove the hub retainer nut on the end of the axle, it will likely
have a cotter pin in it, so remove it first.
Tighten the knock off till it is on the hub tight, then screw the threaded
shaft till the center hits the axle. Tighten to about 80 lb ft, then hit
the end of the shaft with a mallet, then tighten again.
Do this till it comes of..
Also, you'll need later type brake drums, or machine the balancing
tabs off the drums. Failure to do one of the two, will result in your
wheel falling off at the least opportune time.
Keep the splined hubs when you are done, they hold more than
sentimental value.
Having all the parts in hand, this is a 8 beer job.
Perhaps a weekend, 2 x 4 beer days.
Jarrid
4 Received: from disco.imag.net [204.244.225.25] by in7.ibm.net id 916119095.523786-1 ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 05:31:35 +0000
Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:49:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Christopher.Albers@bubbs.biola.edu (Christopher Albers)
To: rob@wisemaninsurance.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:50:43 -0800
Subject: Re: Brakes and Clutch.
Organization: Biola University
rob@wisemaninsurance.com writes:
>This weekend I plan to start rebuilding the brake and clutch master
>cylinders. I was reading the archive and noticed several people advise
>to "hone" them out. I what that that means, I just dont know exactly
>how to go about it. The car has been sitting for 20 years. Neither
>brakes or clutch work at present and I would assume there is some
>pitting inside. Any Suggestions.
I recommend sleeving the cylinders if they're pitted. There is some
debate as to what is best (stainless or brass) because of a galvanic
electrical reaction between ss and aluminum. I have been told that the
danger is minimal. My master is sleeved with ss and I'm quite happy
with it, so far. My wheel cylinders were slightly pitted and I scuffed
them up with a brake hone using a hand drill. Apparently one of thm
was pitted badly and has now failed so I'll probably end up sleeving
them. If you're interested I can refer you to someone who does
sleeving at a very reasonable price.
Christopher
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From: OldeAlp@aol.com
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:05:10 -0400
To: alpines@autox.team.net
Subject: Rebound straps
This question came up a few weeks ago, now I can give some answers.
The strap is 22" long by 1 1/4" wide. It is made up with a core of 1' wide
woven webbing wrapped in a wider piece folded in three, giving a 4 layer
finished strap. The ends attach under the buffer bracket using what Rootes
calls a lock washer - a 1' x 1 1/4" piece of thin sheet metal with 30 1/16th
inch holes punched in it - half from each side - to give a cheese grater
effect.
There seems to be a lot of slack, but it becomes taut with two inches of axle
drop. On the side with the broken strap, it dropped 2 5/8" before the
springs, shocks, whatever stopped it. These observations were on an empty
car sitting in the garage. The dynamics of power, motion, and load were not
considered - mainly 'cause I don't have a clue as to how to do that.
Caveats- the straps on my Series 2 are not factory - they were obtained from
Rick McLeod about 1982 but seemed right. My shock absorbers were rebuilt by
Apple Hydraulics about six years ago - the one on the side with the good
rebound strap is now leaking. The springs and bushings have never been
touched - but probably should be.
The broken strap shows signs of a lot of friction before it went away. Guess
the rear axle windup from all of those power launches took its toll.
"Ole"
K
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:27:39 -0800 (PST)
To: alpines@autox.team.net, tigers@autox.team.net
From: marrone@wco.com (Frank Marrone)
Subject: Hub Puller Review
Here are my hub puller experiences in case it may help out anyone
contemplating this job.
My car is "under restoration" so the rear end was not attached to the car.
First I borrowed a friends home built slide hammer style puller. It bolted
to the wheel lugs and had a 10lb barbell weight that slid along a 1/2 inch
iron pipe. A big thick flat washer was welded to one end of the pipe and
the other end of the pipe screwed into the piece that bolted to the hub.
This puller was built for removing the hubs on his "Tiger" and had been
proven to work, for him.
With the axle still in the rear end housing I started wacking. I broke that
puller twice. I fixed it so it wouldn't break but It became obvious that it
wasn't going to work on my hubs.
I read the stuff on the Home Page and decided to build one of the Dan
Walters style pullers that Ramon described. I figured I'd give it a try
before I let the local machine shop mess with it. I had all the steel
including a nice 14 inch diameter 1/2 inch plate disk for the base. I
decided to build the puller exactly as shown in the plans. I gave some
thought to reducing the hieght of the whacking surface like Ramon suggested
but shim stock is easy to come by and I was concerned that the length of the
"H" assembly added compliance and that might be part of the trick.
Finding a 7/8 X 14 nut is not an easy task in Northern Sonoma County so I
reversed the castle nut and ran it down so the flat side was flush with the
end of the axle. I used the 3" diameter piece of plate I torched out of the
center of the big round piece plus an additional square of 3/8 inch plate
of the wacking plate. I removed an axel from the rear end housing and
tourqued the plate to the hub and axel assembly using the lug nuts. I
probably torqued the nuts to about 75 ft-lb.
I placed the assembly on the lawn. The round plate gave a good bite into
the lawn while taking pressure off the backing plate. I cleared childeren
and pets out of the down-range area even though the axel nut should prevent
the axel from shooting across the yard. Using a average size sledge hammer
I had the first hub off in two wacks. The second side took about 10 wacks
but it did come off!
I kind of doubt that this method would be suitable for on the car use.
Frank Marrone MK I Tiger B9471116
marrone@wco.com 1966 LTD
Series I Alpine "fix me"
Yamaha Seca 900
Received: from newmarket.imag.net [204.244.225.33] by in4.ibm.net id 897083719.77408-1 ; Fri, 05 Jun 1998 21:55:19 +0000
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 17:53:59 -0400
From: John Slade <edalsj@igs.net>
Organization: Island View Associates
To: Alpine List <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Long....Ring gear bolt check
This is a blow by blow account of my checking the ring gear bolts on a S
IV. If not interested, check out now. Anyone contemplating this job
should get a fair idea of what is involved.
Checking the Ring Gear bolts...No real reason other than thread in
Alpines List over last several months, and fact that car was available.
Starting condition:
Car with front and rear ends up on jack stands. Drive shaft removed for
other reasons (engine and tranny out of car).
Object:
To check the ring gear bolts for correct torque in light of various
comments about them tending to loosen up with time.
What was done, with comments:
Drained the differential of gear oil.
Disconnected hand brake cables/yokes from the actuating levers on each
backing plate.
Undid and removed the brake hydraulic pipes both sides. Wrapped the ends
of the pipes in cloth to catch brake fluid and keep away from dirt.
Plugged cylinder threads with machine bolts (3/8NF)to keep clean.
Removed wheels...car I'm working on has wire wheels, so minor
complications occurred later due to the more complex hubs which enclose
the shaft nuts.
Started on the left side. Removed the shaft nut (! 1/8" socket), normal
right hand thread (same both sides) but it's tight... left the flat
washer on the shaft and got it later.
Removed the brake drum from the hub by undoing the four 5/8" socket
7/16NF bolts. The drum needed to be held firm for this, and was
accomplished using a flat steel bar suitably wedged against the floor
and into the drum face.
Using a hub puller (radial hammer type), I removed the hub from the
shaft, and remembered to collect the large flat washer which goes under
the shaft nut.
The five 1/2" socket 5/16NF bolts which bolt the oil seal arrangement
and the brake back plate to the end of the axle were now accessible. If
you are not going to do a full clean-up (both sides) of the backplate,
you don't need to remove any of the brake components mounted
thereon....you can clean up the axle side of the plate with the gear
still mounted. Found I needed a 1/2" wrench to hold the nuts behind the
back plate as I undid the bolts. I had to dig through a half inch of
grime to find some of the nuts....once off, had to to dig out the lock
washers that were underneath them. Removed the oil catcher (the metal
cover), seal and its retainer, and the back plate. Noted the pieces of
torn paper gasket (one each side of backplate) which will have to be
replaced on reassembly.
If you are really fortunate, you may now be able to grab the end of the
shaft and, with a sharp pull, start the shaft sliding out (one of mine
came out that way). If not that lucky, you may have to replace the hub
on the end of the shaft, snug not tight, then replace the washer and
large nut on the end of the shaft to just come up against the hub. Next
replace the brake drum, using two opposite bolts, again snugged, not
tight. Grab the drum, and with a sharp jerk, see if you can start the
shaft out (my second shaft responded to this increased effort). This was
a piece of cake compared to the removal of a third shaft from my parts
car, which I had done first as a rehearsal for the real thing. This
shaft was TIGHT !! The above two methods had absolutely NO effect on the
shaft, so I realized I would have to use a slide hammer type shaft
puller. Instead of using the wire wheel hub, which I used in the second
method above, to which the slide hammer cannot possibly attach with any
of its customary feet, I found in my boxes of hopefully useful Sunbeam
parts a steel wheel hub, which doesn't have the spline projection, and
which has studs. The hub is mounted in a similar manner to the other one
in the previous method, and the puller foot conveniently bolts on to two
opposite studs using normal steel wheel nuts. Once you have ensured that
there is no slack in the system, start pounding the slide hammer. With
this particular shaft, I found that five or six really sharp thumps (the
puller I was using had a slide hammer of about five pounds weight) moved
the bearing out about 1/32"...my hands and arms were beat by the time I
got the shaft out...however it eventually came out, apparently none the
worse for wear.
Now, I had to repeat all the above (forget the third shaft) for the
other side, so that I ended up with both shafts out (which I did to
clean and inspect them), or at least out far enough to clear the gears
in the diff.
I then undid the ten nuts (1/2" socket) from the 5/16NF studs on the
front of the diff in order to remove the pod from the housing. Half of
the nuts brought the studs with them, so were separated on the bench and
the studs were reinstalled. The pod came out clean as a whistle (so to
speak) and onto the bench. My initial assessment of the eight
9/16"socket 3/8"NF bolts (setscrews in proper parlance) which secure the
ring gear was..."Why did I ever go to this trouble, the bolts all have
metal lock tabs on them so they will never work loose"....WRONG !!! The
tabs on four of the eight could be wiggled by hand, and after tapping
back all the locking tabs, none of the eight required more than about
one foot pound of torque to undo. I removed the first bolt, cleaned the
threads, then reinstalled it using loctite 262, torqued to 40 ft lbs,
and resecured the locking tab. Then went to the next one. After all
eight were done, I made a new paper gasket from the remnants of the old
one, coated it with gasket shellac, and reinstalled the pod in the axle
housing.
Reinstallation of the shafts and brake paraphernalia is a reversal of
the above, and is pretty fast, particularly after all the threads have
been cleaned up. I torqued all the bolts to nominal torque for the size
of bolts involved, and managed to get the axle shaft nuts to 50 lb ft,
but will have to have another go at them once the weight is on the
wheels and/or the brakes are reconnected.
The job probably took eight hours all told (home garage), which is less
time than one earlier report. This may have been be assisted by the fact
that, other than dissassembling the diff, I had done all the other jobs
in the past at one time or another, and had most of the tools (other
than the slide hammer) on hand. Had I been able to find tool number
XYZ67890 (one dozen beer) the job might have gone even smoother.
John Slade
Manotick, ON
y
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From: DSand95510@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:01:36 -0400
To: darryl@c3177208.ssr.hp.com
Subject: Re: Rear End Noise
In a message dated 96-04-17 11:38:35 EDT, you write:
> On a related note have you removed the rear-end from your Alpine?
> What is the best method, jack-stand the back and remove the whole
> axle? or work while it's in place. I think that the differential
> would be very had to remove with out pulling the whole axle.
I've unfortunately had to swap differentials a few times. Its easier to do
with the axle housing still in the car. After disconnecting the backing
plates and brake lines, you'll need to come up with a puller to yank each
axle out to be able to remove the differential. Some people attach a long
heavy chain under two lug nuts and use the weight and inertia of the chain to
free the axles. A puller from a rental shop may work, but often the axle nut
interferes with the puller center. (BTW, if you've found a good price on
Series V axle bearing/seals, nows the time to replace them.)
Once you've got the differential out, bend back the soft washers and check
the tightness of the crown wheel bolts, removing one at a time and then
replacing. If you use a torque wrench set very low, say about 15 lbs, I
think you'll be surprised to find some if not all of the bolts loose.
Sunbeam Specialties carries replacement bolts. Even if you switch
differentials, I suggest putting new bolts in. They WILL loosen under the
soft washers and break off eventually.
If the bearing faces are OK and replacing the crown wheel bolts is the only
necessary repair, the bad news is that the differential may still howl. At
least that's been my experience.
For replacement units, keep your eye out for any derelict 1969 Alpine GT or
Coupe fastbacks. The 3.89:1 from the fastback works, but you'll have to swap
the driveshaft coupling, which is shorter on the Series V. From your VIN,
you've got an early Series V (pre-B 395010312) which had a 4.22 from the
factory, so the 3.89 may make it easier to drive on the freeway.
Dick Sanders
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From: "Richard Atherton (Entex)" <a-richat@MICROSOFT.com>
To: "'alpines@autox.team.net'" <alpines@autox.team.net>,
"'tgeiger@HiWAAY.net'" <tgeiger@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: RE: Rear Hub Removal
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:20:01 -0700
I sheared the woodruff key once my self. In the parking lot of my high
school. I was, needless to say, kind of hard on the old car. Dropping
the clutch in reverse @ 3,000 RPM did it for me. I managed to limp
home, and removed the nut. A sheared woodruff key really does make a
mess of the hub and the shaft. I decided to change the woodruff key in
the other hub. I removed the nut, applied pressure from a cheap little
wheel puller, and then gave the back of the hub a good sharp smack with
a hammer. You never want to pound on the end of the axle. If you MUST,
then find a die for the that thread diameter and pitch, and spin it on
to the shaft first. This way when you do spread the end of the threaded
area, just remove the die, and it will remove all of the metal that has
been spread out, leaving only perfect threads on the shaft. I learned
this the hard way on other cars.
Rich
>----------
>From: tgeiger@HiWAAY.net[SMTP:tgeiger@HiWAAY.net]
>Sent: Monday, May 27, 1996 9:52 PM
>To: alpines@autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: Rear Hub Removal
>
>>I removed the tire.
>>
>>I removed the bolt inside the hub which holds the hub to the axel.
>>
>>I put on the puller and applied three-million pounds of force.
>>
>>
>>And it is still on the car.
>>
>>
>>
>>what did I do wrong?
>
>
>I ran into the same problem while rebuilding my ser V diff. Since I
>was
>diassembling the differential for repair anyway, here is the method I
>used:
>
>1. I removed the brake backing plates and them pulled the axles
>(w/bearings
>attached) from the differential housing.
>
>2. I then used a hydraulic press (same one used to press axle
>bearings,
>wristpins, etc.) to push the axle out of the hub. Loosen the axle nut
>a
>couple of turns to where it is flush with the top of the axle so that
>the
>ram head can press squarely on the axle end. If you take the nut
>completely
>off the axle may impale your foot!
>
>3. Insure that the hub is properly supported from the bottom and the
>end of
>the axle meets the the ram head squarely.
>
>4. Pump the hydralic press until the axle pops loose. Now is a good
>time
>to replace the questionable axle bearing while you have the press
>handy.
>
>5. Torque the hubs to 180 lbs when you reassemble. I can tell you
>from an
>unpleasent experience that they will shear the woodruff key and ruin
>the hub
>and axle if you don't do this.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Terry Geiger
>Florence, Alabama USA
>
>'66 Sunbeam Alpine - a.k.a. "Puff the Magic Dragon"; named so because
>everytime you shift gears she puffs smoke.
>'67 Sunbeam Alpine - just for parts, just in case
>
>
) Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:52:40 -0500
To: alpines@autox.team.net
From: tgeiger@HiWAAY.net (Terry W. Geiger)
Subject: Re: Rear Hub Removal
>I removed the tire.
>
>I removed the bolt inside the hub which holds the hub to the axel.
>
>I put on the puller and applied three-million pounds of force.
>
>
>And it is still on the car.
>
>
>
>what did I do wrong?
I ran into the same problem while rebuilding my ser V diff. Since I was
diassembling the differential for repair anyway, here is the method I used:
1. I removed the brake backing plates and them pulled the axles (w/bearings
attached) from the differential housing.
2. I then used a hydraulic press (same one used to press axle bearings,
wristpins, etc.) to push the axle out of the hub. Loosen the axle nut a
couple of turns to where it is flush with the top of the axle so that the
ram head can press squarely on the axle end. If you take the nut completely
off the axle may impale your foot!
3. Insure that the hub is properly supported from the bottom and the end of
the axle meets the the ram head squarely.
4. Pump the hydralic press until the axle pops loose. Now is a good time
to replace the questionable axle bearing while you have the press handy.
5. Torque the hubs to 180 lbs when you reassemble. I can tell you from an
unpleasent experience that they will shear the woodruff key and ruin the hub
and axle if you don't do this.
Hope this helps.
Terry Geiger
Florence, Alabama USA
'66 Sunbeam Alpine - a.k.a. "Puff the Magic Dragon"; named so because
everytime you shift gears she puffs smoke.
'67 Sunbeam Alpine - just for parts, just in case
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From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca
Subject: Re: rear lever-arm shock filling
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:47:00 -0700
>So you just drained through the filler hole (didn't dismantle), then
>poured solvent in, worked the pistons a bit, drained, dried and then
>re-filled with new juice?
No, you drain through the valve in the bottom.
Everything else is correct though.
Jarrid
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Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:07:30 -0400
To: alpines@autox.team.net
From: edalsj@igs.net (John C. Slade)
Subject: Re: Rear splined hub removal
>I removed the tire.
>
>I removed the bolt inside the hub which holds the hub to the axel.
>
>I put on the puller and applied three-million pounds of force.
>
>
>And it is still on the car.
>
>
>
>what did I do wrong?
Interesting. Two days ago I did exactly the same thing, from two Alpines,
and my four hubs came off clean as a whistle. However...if these things
have been on for a long time, they can be extremely hard to budge. You must
use a hammer puller, so that as you apply the axial force, the pounding
sends shock waves through the hub/axle shaft interface to encourage
separation. I'm referring to the type of puller where you use a LARGE
hammer to rotate the piece of the puller which fits on the end of the
threaded section. As you pound it round and round, you hear the frequency
of impact going up and up, until, with a somewhat surprising bang/crack,
the whole thing jumps out about three inches. I use two high tensile bolts,
180=B0 apart, screwed into the hub the full width of the hub, on which to
mount the puller arms.
The only thing I can think of which might give you problems is the large
flat washer under the axle shaft nut. It could conceivably jam on the
threads. I suggest you try to remove it first, if it is still on the shaft,
before using the puller. Remember to torque the axle nut when you replace
it. The book says 180 ft lbs.
Hope this helps.
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Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:17:28 -0500
From: Jeff Antosiak <sunbeam@tir.com>
To: alpines@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Ring Gear Bolt Replacment
For the folks out there that are thinking about replacing their
ring gear bolts, I can't agree enough on the frequency that I've
seen this problem happen. One variation to Jarrid's fine posting is
that the axles CAN be removed from the housing without pulling off
the hubs. It's been a few years since I've done it last, but I recall
only that the brake shoes and hardware needed to be removed to get
access to the backing plate bolts. This not only makes it easier
to pull the axles out, but also makes it easier when it comes time to
install the axles back in - gives you something to hold on to. "Shoot,
gonna have to set my beer down for a minute and put the axle back in..."
If you find that you need to replace the bearing once it's apart, just
throw it back together and start looking for the puller then! I've also
found that if you need a little help getting the axle started out of the
housing, just install the brake drum on backwards, then thread on the
lug nuts leaving them about a half an inch from contacting the drum.
Now you can use the drum as a slide hammer - just pull it rapidly
towards the lugs nuts a couple of times and the axle should start to
pull from the housing. As the SV was getting a little noisy when I put
it up for the winter, I'll probably get to try this again in a couple of
weeks...
BTW - In the process of looking through the garage for parts to sell, I
came across a old, broken in two, Rotoflex coupling from my old IMP - it
had Metalastik written on the side. I think this is one Sunbeam part
that it'll be o.k. to throw out.
Jeff Antosiak
(Still cleaning out years of parts too good to throw away...)
Guinness Rules!
Jarrid wrote:
>
> Next there is the problem of removing the hubs from the axles.
>
> Ramon put out a post e few days past, on a tool that was built by a
> SoCal sunbeam expert named Dan Walters. Dan has constructed a tool that
> works well with Tiger and Alpine hubs.
>
> Personally I have had good luck with renting quality hub pullers, but
> wimpy ones,
> or ones not specifically set up for 4 on 4 1/4 inch hubs should not be
> used.
> Universal hub pullers seldom work, and are easily broken by the amount
> of force required to unseat the hub from the axles.
>
> After the hubs are off, the brake line fittings must be removed from the
> wheel cyls.
>
> Remove the e-brake hardware from backing plate as well.
>
> 5 bolts and nuts are removed from the (seal) covers. These bolts go
> through the seal covers as well as the backing plates, and bolt all the
> above to the
> axle flanges.
>
> The backing plates are removed, and the axle can now be extracted.
> If the axle is not easily pulled by hand, the hub can be installed with
> a loosely
> tightened axle nut, and pulled with a slide hammer, or whatever works.
> Keep trying, you are pulling the axle splines from the differential
> gears, and sliding
> the bearing out of the case, that is all.
>
> There are no clever clips or anything to keep the axles from coming out,
> only the backing plate keeps the axle in the case via the bearing.
>
> This whole ordeal takes me about 2 hours 6 beers for removal, and 3
> hours 8 beers for Installation.
>
> Jarrid
>
>
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From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@unit.com>
To: "'alpine clan'" <alpines@autox.team.net>, DSand95510@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ring Gear Bolt Replacment
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:24:00 -0800
Dick and the Alpine Clan,
True, the hubs do not have to be removed, and in a pinch I have done it
this way before. The real problem is that there are gaskets between the
plates that are bolted to the axle case.
Without removing the hub, it is not possible to replace the axle oil
seal, nor the
two inside gaskets.
Failure to replace them could result in oil leakage into the brake drum.
I promised myself the last time I hosed a repair on the Alpine, that I
would never get cheap and sleazy again.
Gaskets and the additional time can seem expensive, but having to do it
twice costs
quite a bit more.
As far as the really locked hubs go, try to heat the hub "not the
axle".
This will of course will ruin the axle oil seal.
Since the hot hub will expand, it may very well loosen its grip from the
axle shaft.
This worked for me on one occasion where I contemplated going to a
machine shop to get the hub pressed off.
Jarrid Gross
>Jarrid,
>
>I thought I misread this post the first time. I'm having trouble
>understanding why the hubs would be removed from the axles as part of
>accessing and repairing the differential unit. The axle and hub come
out
>much more quickly and easily as an assembly.
>
>Even when using exactly the right tool, pulling hubs can be an absolute
bear.
> Stories abound of Sunbeam owners using up to 20-ton presses to pop the
hubs
>loose - and sometimes even then without success!!!
>
>Did I overlook something in your post?
>
>Dick Sanders
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From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@unit.com>
To: Bob Douglas <b-douglas@ti.com>
Subject: Re: Ring Gear Bolts
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:29:00 -0800
Bob wrote,
>Jarrid, A while back your wrote:
>
>> All you have to do is pull the axles, then pull out the third member.
>> With the right tools the procedure only takes about an hour.
>
>It sounds so simple, but then I've seen enough of your postings to
realize
>that
>"easy" to you may as well be brain surgery for many of the rest of us.
What
>are the "right tools" you mentioned and what grade replacement bolts
did you
>use?
>
>The shop manual is a bit weak in this area. Are there any particular
tricks
>to
>getting things apart, and more importantly, back together again?
>
>Thanks and regards, Bob Douglas
First of all Bob and Alpiners, give yourselves some credit.
Any job like this is just a large list of smaller simple procedures.
Take your time, look into what your in for, be prepared and most of all,
play it safe.
Keep the parts clean, replace suspect parts and label everything that
you are not positive you could recognize a year from now.
This job can be done in your spare time, part by part, until the job is
done.
Axle/Diff removal is as follows.
Remove the driveshaft attachement to the drive yoke on the diff unit.
(Do this now, as the e-brakes and tranny in gear can make it a lot
easier to loosen
the nuts.)
Pull off the road wheels and the brake drums.
Next there is the problem of removing the hubs from the axles.
Ramon put out a post e few days past, on a tool that was built by a
SoCal sunbeam expert named Dan Walters. Dan has constructed a tool that
works well with Tiger and Alpine hubs.
Perhaps Ramon would bless us with this knowledge so that we can
build one, and perhaps share is as community property?
Personally I have had good luck with renting quality hub pullers, but
wimpy ones,
or ones not specifically set up for 4 on 4 1/4 inch hubs should not be
used.
Universal hub pullers seldom work, and are easily broken by the amount
of force required to unseat the hub from the axles.
After the hubs are off, the brake line fittings must be removed from the
wheel cyls.
Remove the e-brake hardware from backing plate as well.
5 bolts and nuts are removed from the (seal) covers. These bolts go
through the seal covers as well as the backing plates, and bolt all the
above to the
axle flanges.
The backing plates are removed, and the axle can now be extracted.
If the axle is not easily pulled by hand, the hub can be installed with
a loosely
tightened axle nut, and pulled with a slide hammer, or whatever works.
Keep trying, you are pulling the axle splines from the differential
gears, and sliding
the bearing out of the case, that is all.
There are no clever clips or anything to keep the axles from coming out,
only the backing plate keeps the axle in the case via the bearing.
Remove all the diff nuts from the front end of the differential.
(Drain gear oil as appropriate).
Be carefull on the last few nuts as the diff is only attached by the
nuts to the axle case studs.
After the nuts are all removed, the diff can be pulled straight out the
fron of the
axle case. Carefull it's heavy!
The diff can be replaced as a unit, provided you have the appropriate
splined axles
to go with your case and the differential gears in the diff itself.
Re-assembly is the opposite of these instructions, but new gaskets
should be used,
new oil seals considered, and of course the brakes must be bled.
I have popped 4.55/3.89 gear sets in and out depending upon the mood
I'm in, and have gotten pretty used to this procedure.
This whole ordeal takes me about 2 hours 6 beers for removal, and 3
hours 8 beers for Installation.
Jarrid
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From: DSand95510@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:41:48 -0500 (EST)
To: jimc@sysdiv.sdl.usu.edu, jlaifman@pircher.com
Subject: Re: Ring Gear Bolts
In a message dated 97-03-26 13:52:00 EST, jimc@sysdiv.SDL.usu.EDU (Jim
Cantrell) writes:
>> > It is a good practice to remove the differential cover on high
>> > mileage cars every few years and torque the ring gear bolts to
>> > specification. I have found many "on their way" to lossening. I
>> > suspect that they take many years to complete their tortuous path to
>> > destruction.
>
>
Like Ramon, I've gone thru a number of differentials (not always
high-mileage) and have always found at least some if not all of the ring gear
bolts were finger-tight or at least severly undertorqued. Personally, I
would take Ramon's suggestion to REPLACE all of the bolts rather than just
re-torqueing them. If the bolts have started to come loose, then they've
probably been subject to a lot of shearing force every time the clutch is
released. The chances are pretty good that at least one of the bolts is
already cracked.
I know of at least one person who had a ring gear bolt break off when
attempting to re-torque it.
Its worth your peace of mind to take it apart now before the worst happens.
From the ones I've had go bad in the past, I'm not sure which is worse - the
high-speed failure where you're rocked by the explosive BANG!!!! of the
jammed bolt instantly blowing a hole thru the case, or the the low-speed
failure where suddenly, again without any warning, you're pitched into the
steering wheel as everything seizes up.
Dick Sanders
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From: "Spontelli, Ramon" <rs11@elsegundoca.ncr.com>
To: alpines <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Ring Gear Bolts
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 06:56:00 PST
I don't mean to cause any unnecessary alarm or hysteria, but . . .
Monday night, Dan Walters came over with his monster hub puller, and after
dinner we had a marathon axle-hub-pulling session. We jerked the hubs off
eight axles in little over an hour--like seven or eight minutes each!
This adventure was the result of a busted ring gear bolt in the Series II,
which had fallen to the bottom of the differential case and subsequently
took the heel ends off seven of the nine teeth on the pinion gear. Since I
was going to have to either borrow Dan's puller or make one for myself, I
decided to fish the three rear ends out of the shed, remove all the axles
and pumpkins, and do the whole lot all at once.
After dehubbing the last axle, we raided the suds locker and I asked Dan if
he wanted to look at all the nasty stuff I had found in the bottom of my
axle housing.
"Busted teeth and bolts?" he asked.
"Teeth yes, bolts, no, just one," as I showed him the body bag.
"Just one? All the rest were loose though, weren't they?"
Well, I didn't know 'cause I hadn't fooled around at all with the busted
pumpkin, so we went over to the other corner of the garage to have a look.
Sure enough, all of the ring gear bolts were loose! I mean like
not-even-finger-tight loose!
Then we checked the others. I had all four pumpkins lined up there on the
workbench, and . . . Would you believe? All of the ring gear bolts were
loose on the second pumpkin! And on the third! Only the fourth had bolts
you couldn't wiggle with your fingers! And yes, I mean "wiggle" with your
fingers!
So, three out of four rear ends taken from various parts cars had very, very
loose ring bolts. I guess that does not necessarily mean that three out of
four cars on the road will have loose ring gear bolts, but it certainly is
something to think about.
I asked Dan what he thought the problem might be, and he blames it on those
"lock" washers, which are really just over-sized flat washers that are
bashed up and down across a flat on the bolt and the differential carrier.
He says that they are too soft. They get crushed by the torque on the
bolts, and then let the bolts come loose. I think I'll toss all of mine in
the original-but-useless parts bin, get some new bolts, and use real lock
washers with a whole sh*t-load o' lock-tite when I put mine back together.
Ramon
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From: "Jim Cantrell" <jimc@sysdiv.SDL.usu.EDU>
To: alpines@autox.team.net
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:35:15 MDT
Subject: Re: Ring Gear Bolts
> I don't mean to cause any unnecessary alarm or hysteria, but . . .
Ah, but it should.
> Then we checked the others. I had all four pumpkins lined up there on the
> workbench, and . . . Would you believe? All of the ring gear bolts were
> loose on the second pumpkin! And on the third! Only the fourth had bolts
> you couldn't wiggle with your fingers! And yes, I mean "wiggle" with your
> fingers!
Yes, this problem is not endemic just to Alpines. I have had this
happen on several Dana 60 and 44 differentials. Its seems as they do
periodically come loose ... and if you don't catch it in time ... you
in for one hell of a pain in your wallet. I have had some very
similar experiences to yours where one bolt pretty much grenades the
entire differential.
> loose ring bolts. I guess that does not necessarily mean that three out of
> four cars on the road will have loose ring gear bolts, but it certainly is
> something to think about.
It is a good practice to remove the differential cover on high
mileage cars every few years and torque the ring gear bolts to
specification. I have found many "on their way" to lossening. I
suspect that they take many years to complete their tortuous path to
destruction.
> I asked Dan what he thought the problem might be, and he blames it on those
> "lock" washers, which are really just over-sized flat washers that are
> bashed up and down across a flat on the bolt and the differential carrier.
> He says that they are too soft. They get crushed by the torque on the
> bolts, and then let the bolts come loose. I think I'll toss all of mine in
> the original-but-useless parts bin, get some new bolts, and use real lock
> washers with a whole sh*t-load o' lock-tite when I put mine back together.
I have had excellent success with the near permanent red lock tite.
I don't know if its available in auto parts stores, but differential
shops like West Coast Differentials sells it with every gear kit they
sell. I always replce the lock washers with the slpit style washers
and this works well. ANother method for the real paranoid or rough
use (like off road 4x4's) is to wire lock each of the bolts. As far
as cause, I personally suspect vibration in wearing ring/pinion
assemblies and carrier bearings is the cause as I have never seen
this behavior in differentials with less than 150 k miles.
Kind Regards,
Jim Cantrell
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:39:51 -0800
To: tigers@autox.team.net
From: Frank Marrone <marrone@wco.com>
Subject: Shakle Bushing Replacement
I was able to change the upper spring shakle busings with out too much
trouble.
I tried pressing the old bushings out using a long bolt, some spacers and
washers but this didn't work. I just ended up bending washers and the
outer casing of the bushings. I decided I needed to cut the old bushings
outer casing to get them out. I used the torch to heat the inner sleeve on
one side, that allowed me to pull the inner sleeve and the rubber out
leaving just the outer casing in the frame rail. On the other side the
inner sleeve and rubber pulled out without the aide of the torch. I then
used a cutting chisel to cut down the length of the outer casing. After I
cut about 2/3rds the way down the bushing finally could be beat out the
rest of the way. This worked on both sides. The bosses that the bushings
are pressed into are pretty hard so there were only a few minor scratches
in the holes from the chisel, these I dressed with a file before installing
the new bushings. The new bushings went in easy using various length long
bolts and appropriate washers and spacers as a poor mans press. I applied
a little never sieze to the bushings to aide in their insertion.
Thanks to list members for ideas that helped make this easier.
Frank Marrone MK I Tiger B9471116
marrone@wco.com '97 Crown Vic LX
Yamaha Seca 900 (aka XJ900RK)
'79 Spitfire
'66 Ford LTD
'88 Nissan 4WD p'up
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Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:29:30 -0700
From: frodo4@ix.netcom.com (John Souders )
Subject: Re: Spring removal
To: alpines@autox.team.net
You wrote:
>
>>From my experience of doing this, you will have to separate the lower
>A-arm from the hub carrier and remove the sway bar. This is how I
went
>about doing this, may not be the safe and recommended way mind you.
>
>1.Remove the front sway bar.
>
>2.(this is where one might be skeptical) After removing the shocks,
wrap
>the spring with high tension wire numerous times, from as high as you
can
>go to as low as you can go. Be conservative and wrap it like a man
>possessed. I used 50-lbs wire and wrapped it 6 times in 3 places
around
>the spring. This will allow you to drop the lower A-arm without the
>spring's tension helping it out.
>
>3.once the spring is wrapped exceptionally well, lift the car up high
>enough to be able to drop the lower A-arm down vertically.
>
>4.Watch the spring easily drop out after undoing the lower ball joint,
>and swinging the A-arm out of the way.
>
Some years ago I removed both of mine (series IV), without the use of
wire or any other special tools. The spring doesnt actually expand very
far, and with the CAREFUL use of jacks etc to relieve the spring
pressure slowly the lower A can be dropped and the spring removed. It
can also be replaced in the same way.
But just because I did it doesnt mean you should, so you do so at your
own risk.
John
%
Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <cjr7@axe.humboldt.edu>
Subject: Re: Spring removal
To: John Souders <frodo4@ix.netcom.com>
Or one could simplyy use the weight of the car to compress the spring.
Then, when the a-arm is freee from the ball joint, simply raise the cars
weight up and vioala (sic).
regards-Chris
On Thu, 16 May 1996, John Souders wrote:
> You wrote:
> >
> >>From my experience of doing this, you will have to separate the lower
>
> >A-arm from the hub carrier and remove the sway bar. This is how I
> went
> >about doing this, may not be the safe and recommended way mind you.
> >
> >1.Remove the front sway bar.
> >
> >2.(this is where one might be skeptical) After removing the shocks,
> wrap
> >the spring with high tension wire numerous times, from as high as you
> can
> >go to as low as you can go. Be conservative and wrap it like a man
> >possessed. I used 50-lbs wire and wrapped it 6 times in 3 places
> around
> >the spring. This will allow you to drop the lower A-arm without the
> >spring's tension helping it out.
> >
> >3.once the spring is wrapped exceptionally well, lift the car up high
> >enough to be able to drop the lower A-arm down vertically.
> >
> >4.Watch the spring easily drop out after undoing the lower ball joint,
>
> >and swinging the A-arm out of the way.
> >
>
> Some years ago I removed both of mine (series IV), without the use of
> wire or any other special tools. The spring doesnt actually expand very
> far, and with the CAREFUL use of jacks etc to relieve the spring
> pressure slowly the lower A can be dropped and the spring removed. It
> can also be replaced in the same way.
>
> But just because I did it doesnt mean you should, so you do so at your
> own risk.
>
> John
>
>
>
Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Reese <reesee@ucs.orst.edu>
To: Alpine <Alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Spring removal
>From my experience of doing this, you will have to separate the lower
A-arm from the hub carrier and remove the sway bar. This is how I went
about doing this, may not be the safe and recommended way mind you.
1.Remove the front sway bar.
2.(this is where one might be skeptical) After removing the shocks, wrap
the spring with high tension wire numerous times, from as high as you can
go to as low as you can go. Be conservative and wrap it like a man
possessed. I used 50-lbs wire and wrapped it 6 times in 3 places around
the spring. This will allow you to drop the lower A-arm without the
spring's tension helping it out.
3.once the spring is wrapped exceptionally well, lift the car up high
enough to be able to drop the lower A-arm down vertically.
4.Watch the spring easily drop out after undoing the lower ball joint,
and swinging the A-arm out of the way.
I hope this of some help, probably more confusion though.
Ted Reese
'66 Alpine
Received: from ciao-intranet ([129.135.4.2]) by alpine.iss.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
From: "Spontelli, Ramon" <rs11@elsegundoca.ncr.com>
To: alpines <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Steering Cross-Tube Bushings
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:42:00 -0700
I have been putting off replacing the bushings in the steering
cross-tube on the Series II because I believed you needed to take the
motor out to do the job. Yesterday afternoon I decided to have a go at
it anyway, and here's how it came out:
1. Loosen & remove the links joining the tie-rod pair on each side.
2. Remove the pitman-arm nut from the steering box output shaft.
3. Remove the bolts mounting the steering box to the frame and pry the
box away from the frame a bit so you can install the pitman-arm puller.
4. Pop the pitman arm off the steering shaft.
5. Remove the bolts holding the pivot-plate assembly (whatever it's
called) to the frame on the passenger side.
6. Though it doesn't exactly fall out, at this point you can pull the
whole assembly out from the passenger side. I had to make several trips
from side to side, twisting, and positioning, and pulling and pushing,
but in the end it all did slide out without scraping too much paint.
After I get it all cleaned up and painted, I expect to be able to put it
back in pieces:
1. Put pitman arm back on steering box.
2. Put pivot-plate assembly back on passenger side.
3. Reattach cross-tube.
Oh yea, one small "problem" with the bushings. The original bushing in
my tube were a two-piece metal/rubber affair, sort of like a leaf-spring
eye bushing. The bushings I got from Sunbeam Specialties were just
rubber. It was pretty obvious that they weren't going to go into the
tube unless I could press out the metal part of the old bushing. And
I'm here to tell you that those pieces did not/do not want to come out.
After several failed attempts, I went out to the shed and popped a tube
off a Series IV steering assembly. The bushings in it were
one-piece/rubber, and the new bushings went into that tube,
lickety-split!
Ramon
Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
From: "Richard Atherton (Entex)" <a-richat@MICROSOFT.com>
To: "'alpines@autox.team.net'" <alpines@autox.team.net>,
"'Steve Robbins'"
<stever@ebicom.net>
Subject: RE: Suspension pop
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:00:42 -0800
All of the above. Anytime you have front end noises in a 30 year old
LBC, it needs to be checked out. It can be any of the items you
mentioned or ALL of them. Jack the car up and set it down on jack
stands resting on the bottom of the lower A-arm Do this to both sides.
This will remove the load from ALL of the joints except for the lower
fulcrum pin (depending on the placement of the jack stands). Now grab
each part and shake it, being careful no to knock the car off the
stands. Some of us Burly types can knock'em off pretty easy. Work the
steering back and forth, and try to rock the tires top to bottom. If
something is loose, this is a good way to locate it.
>----------
>From: Steve Robbins[SMTP:stever@ebicom.net]
>Sent: Monday, February 10, 1997 4:57 PM
>To: alpines@autox.team.net
>Subject: Suspension pop
>
>I hear a muted "pop" when I turn the wheel hard right while backing out
>of a parking slot. I just got the Series V and have not had a chance to
>grease it yet. Any suggestions ... ball joints, bushings,....
>
X Received: from disco.imag.net [204.244.225.25] by in5.ibm.net id 923811280.395502-1 ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:14:40 +0000
Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:06:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: Christopher.Albers@bubbs.biola.edu (Christopher Albers)
To: mbgardner@freewwweb.com
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:07:42 -0800
Subject: Re: rear brake line
Organization: Biola University
mbgardner@freewwweb.com writes:
>Does anyone stock the rear steel brake line from the passenger wheel
>cylinder to the flexible hose connection on the rear axle.?
It is very easy to make your own. You can buy lengths of 3/16" tubing
from most any auto parts store, but you usually have to buy something
that already has fittings or bulk of 25 feet. To get a small length go
to a brake supply store. They can cut it to spec and even do the
flares for you (don't forget to give them the fittings first). I redid
all my lines to switch to DOT 5. I bought 25' of tubing, a flaring
tool and went to work. Very pleased with the result.
Good luck.
Christopher
Received: from superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6] by in2.ibm.net id 925927485.110870-1 ; Wed, 05 May 1999 18:04:45 +0000
Wed, 5 May 1999 12:02:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: Christopher.Albers@bubbs.biola.edu (Christopher Albers)
To: laifman@flash.net
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:01:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Girling Hydraulics boundary="------------884204B35A942E1A667F136F"
Organization: Biola University
George Frechette, who advertises in Hemmings, resleeved my servo with
stainless steel for $150. With five stepped bores in the Girling
servo, that is significantly less than the $45 per bore quoted by
Karp's Power Brake. This was about 5 years ago, so he may be a little
more expensive now. Also, mine was the first he'd ever done, so maybe
he didn't knoiw what he was getting himself into. I am very satisfied
with the quality of the work.
George can be reached at (800) 528-5235.
Christopher Albers
K Received: from ns3.imag.net [207.200.148.6] by in1.ibm.net id 925934008.85816-1 ; Wed, 05 May 1999 19:53:28 +0000
Wed, 5 May 1999 13:48:56 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:51:09 -0700
From: Steve Laifman <laifman@flash.net>
To: Christopher Albers <Christopher.Albers@bubbs.biola.edu>
Subject: Re: Girling Hydraulics boundary="------------884204B35A942E1A667F136F"
Christopher Albers wrote:
> George Frechette, who advertises in Hemmings, resleeved my servo with
> stainless steel for $150. With five stepped bores in the Girling
> servo, that is significantly less than the $45 per bore quoted by
> Karp's Power Brake. This was about 5 years ago, so he may be a little
> more expensive now. Also, mine was the first he'd ever done, so maybe
> he didn't knoiw what he was getting himself into. I am very satisfied
> with the quality of the work.
>
> George can be reached at (800) 528-5235.
>
> Christopher Albers
Chris, and Tigers,
First, Chris, let me apologize for asking you for his location, you did
give the 800 number.
I called him and found the following information. He only does sleeving,
and does not rebuild the units, as my referenced supplier Karp's does.
He only did one of the five steps of the bores. He did not seem familiar
with the design of the Girling, so did not know how they are stepped. He
has done stepped bores, for master cylinders, but the Girling actually
has two chambers. In the Girling the piston rod goes through that pesky
canister seal, then decrease in diameter for the moving piston rod output
bore. Rather long. The second bore is on top of this one and appears to
have four steps, three of which have static or moving seals. The last
one appears to be for control valve end shaft penetration clearance. I
would guess that 5 is the correct number of wearing surfaces that
sequentially step down.
This would require boring and honing all, but the wall is pretty thin
between the first two parallel bores near the canister.
George Frechette currently charges $40/sleeve. Dismantling and
rebuilding are your responsibility.
Karp charges around $50/sleeve, with multiple sleeve discount because
there is only one initial set-up per bore.
He uses only Girling (Lockheed since merger) parts from England, and has
a direct source.
Hope this information helps someone looking to get a reliable system.
Steve
--
Steve Laifman < Find out what is most >
B9472289 < important in your life >
< and don't let it get away!>
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Received: from superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6] by in5.ibm.net id 935725968.52616-1 ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:52:48 +0000
Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:52:55 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:20:54 +0930
From: Paul Heuer <paul.heuer@dsto.defence.gov.au>
To: robert nanzig <rnanzig@webtv.net>,
"alpines@autox.team.net" <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Minilites (was: anybody need stock wheels?)
robert nanzig wrote:
>
> Somebody please explain what is offset,what is it's importance, and how
> do you measure it.
> Always curious.
>
Not easy without hand-waving and pictures, but here's a start:
OFFSET is used here is Australia, but you Mercans seem to talk mostly of
BACKSPACE.
Conceptually, OFFSET is how far off-centre the mounting face of the
wheel-hub is compared to the width of the wheel.
Example:
If I have a 6in wide wheel with 1in positive offset, then the mounting
face of the wheel hub is 2in in from the shiny side of the mag-wheel,
and 4in in from the side that goes toward the car.
Conceptually, BACKSPACE is the 4in figure in the example above. That is
the distance from the mounting face of the wheel-hub to the side of the
wheel that goes towards the car (ie the SPACE at the BACK of the wheel).
BUT, BACKSPACE is actually measured from the tyre mounting surface, not
the edge of the wheel where you'd normally hang the balance weights. So
it's that bit harder to measure. I think Jarrid said to allow about
0.25in for the mounting flange thickness when you try to measure
BACKSPACE.
OK, Jarrid, how'd I do? Was I paying attention during that spate of
emails a year or so ago?
Cheers,
Paul.
Superlites, 14x6 23/32"P
--
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