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From: "Steven Semeraro, ATR, (202) 514-8374" <semerasx@justice.usdoj.gov>
To: brian@harpo.ampr.ab.ca, alpines@autox.team.net
Subject: 1592 cam grinds?
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 18:51:36 -0500 (EST)
From hermes.intel.com!harpo.ampr.ab.ca!brian Thu Jan 19 23:25:46 1995
From: brian@harpo.ampr.ab.ca
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Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:32:36 -0700
To: alpines@autox.team.net
>From: harpo.ampr.ab.ca!brian (Brian Hutchison)
Subject: 1592 cam grinds?
I have an Alpine Series II (9118102) My spare 1592 is on the engine stand
in the garage, ready for final assembly. I got the stock cam reground to
stock specs, but before I put it in, I thought I would check if anyone has
any experience with other grinds/manufacturers. My car will be set up with
the twin Zenith carbs, and is strictly for street use, so it must have a
reasonable idle and low end. (If I wanted a FAST car, I'd probably have
something else :-)
All suggestions welcome!
Brian Hutchison
brian@harpo.ampr.ab.ca __________________________________________ Gumball
The Holbay company in England has a number of modification
options for the Rootes engine, both 1.5L and 1.7L varieties. I
wrote to them about a year ago and received a sheet of
information describing the various options. Most of them look
fine for street use. I focused more on the 1.7 because that's
what I have, but I think things were fairly similar for the
earlier engine. Basically, the options were a modified head and
reprofiled cam shaft with the standard carbs. This mod is said
to offer an increase of 7-8 BHP and a 12% apx. torque increase. This is what
I would be interested in, because keeping the stock look of the
engine bay is very important to me. If you don't care about that
and want more power, Holbay offers a Weber conversion that goes
along with head and cam shaft modifications. Finally, they offer
more elaborate mods that would likely require brake and
suspension mods as well. I'll post more detailed info. if you're
interested. I've been thinking about this for about a year.
Being very inexperienced in the area, I'm not sure how much
difference the modifications with the stock carbs would make. If
anyone has any thoughts, please post them.
Steve
Series V
í Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:50:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Reese <reesee@ucs.orst.edu>
To: Jay Laifman <JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: sway bar
Jay, you are right, by stiffening one end, you will also soften the other.
The book "Vintage Racing British Sports Cars" goes into good detail on the
Alpine and Tiger as to what current vintage racers are doing. One of the
first mods is to install tiger front springs (as the Alpines have a
tendency to be soft from the factory) with one coil cut off. This will
also lower the car. A good example would be my a picture of my car on
the Alpine web page. A larger front sway bar is also installed, and as
I remember no rear bar is added as it induces oversteer. Anyway, this
solution may not be perfect for everyone, but it produced a stable and
neutral handling car that is probably faster that a Tiger in an
autocross.
Ted Reese
'66 Alpine
On 13 May 1996, Jay Laifman wrote:
> Bill Lewis
>
> writes:
>
> P.S. Isn't there someone out there that has put a rear sway bar on an
> early series car? I'd like to talk to them to figure out how to mount it
> to the frame since the early series cars don't have frame bolts."
> ***** NOTES from Jay Laifman (JLAIFMAN @ PNM) at 5/13/96 4:47p
> I have not seen it, but I did have someone comment to me about rear sway
> bars in general - a topic about which I know next to nothing. He said
> that if you stiffen one end of the suspension, it will increase the
> "softness" of the other end. So, some sort of balancing is required.
> Anyone have any experience finding the proper "balance" for the Alpine?
>
> Jay
>
> Jay S. Laifman
> Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
> 1999 Avenue of the Stars
> Los Angeles, California 90067
> (310) 201-8915
>
>
>
‚ Received: by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:12:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted Reese <reesee@ucs.orst.edu>
To: Alpine <Alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Alpine wheel spacing and suspension.
A few people were interested in how I got the suspension on my alpine how
it is now. A few people commented that the whole car is lowered. In fact
the front suspension is the only end lowered. To do this I installed
tiger springs with one coil cut off. I used the tiger springs for the
increased spring rate they provide. It is good to have a stiffer spring
with so little wheel travel. With the 205/60/13 tires, it really
looks good (in my eyes). In the back, the springs are stock as is the
ride height. To eliminate the rub problem I had with the tires (same
size as the front) I installed some progressive rate bump stops. The
ones I used were from Rancho Suspension. I believe they are meant for a
Jeep CJ5, not positive about that though, but they are for a Jeep. The
bump stops are about 3 inches tall and are mounted onto a riser. The
riser is about 1-1 1/2 inches tall. It is U shaped with wings on the to
chassis above the axle (where the stock bump stops are). I also
used a 1 inch by 2 inch tube section of steel for additional spacing. I
have the bump stop mounted so there is about 1 inch of free travel before
coming into contact with the bump stop, from here the spring rate rises
problem, no rubbing since they have been installed. I hope this help out.
There was also a question about my choice of tires. I am running
Yokahama A509's. I would highly recommend these tires for a good mix of
affordability, high grip and some wet weather driving. I purchased mine
from a mail order tire company for $57 each.
The bump stops look something like this.
|| || With the top pieces being bolts for mounting.
__||_____||_
| |
| ---------- |
| | ---- | |
| \__| |__/ |
\____________/
I hope this is a help. If there are any other questions, just ask.
Ted Reese
;
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Subject: 1/1 holbay.txt
From: alpine!tjhiggin@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca (Mystic Rhythms Server)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 0:04:41 CDT
To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca
BEGIN ---- holbay.txt ---- Part 1 of 1 ---- (LIMIT=100000 bytes)
From: "Steven Semeraro, ATR, (202) 514-8374" <semerasx@justice.usdoj.gov>
Subject: HOlbay Engine Mods
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 20:12:07 -0500 (EST)
I tried to post this info about Holbay Racing Engines yesterday,
but it doesn't seem to have gotten through. I heard about the
company in a Practical Classics article on the Alpine. Great
piece around June 1993 I think. It had alot of good things to
say about the Rootes 4-banger, including that it is very tunable
without loss of reliability. Info. about Holbay was also
distributed at Suni II. What follows are options for the 1725cc
power unit, but similar options are available for the 1500cc.
1. "Modifications to cylinder head and reprofiling standard
camshaft to high performance design. Power output with standard
Stromberg carburettors 98BHP with 9% increase in maximum torque.
375 pounds sterling.
2. 2X4 DCO Weber carburettors with aluminium alloy intake
manifold Power output when used in conjunciton with the above is
120 BHP with 15% increase in maximum torque. 421 pounds sterling""
As Tony said, a 140 BHP version is available for 1993 pounds
sterling. The address is 4 Betts AVe., Martlesham Heath,
Ipswich, Suffolk IP5 7RH. Tel 0473 623000; Fax 0473 610587.
I'd really like to hear what people think about how much
difference the 1 and 2 mods would make.
BTW, even though I clearly fall on the "I like it stock" side (well
sort of, I wouldn't mind one of these Holbay options and I have a
Series I-III grille in my Series V and I may add some MKII trim if I
find it . . . OK, so everybody likes to tinker a little-- anyway I
really enjoy hearing about others' modifications, and I want to urge
Frank to reconsider posting info about his experience creating the
Alpinto. If not though, I'd like to be on a distribution list.
Steve Semeraro
Series V
Ñ Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Reese <reesee@ucs.orst.edu>
To: Alpine <Alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re:sway bars
The difference in springs are as follows, (from what I know).
Alpine and Tiger springs look identical but Tiger spring is stiffer to
support the HEAVY V8 on top of them. How much stiffer I am not sure. The
springs that CAT sells are A LOT stiffer, something like 325 in-lbs.
This may be enough to shake the car apart. I would not recommend this
setup unless you are going full race.
A "mistake" that Roots made while going through the series of Alpines was
the progressive softening of the springs to make the car more compliant.
The Tiger springs are to correct this trend.
When I first installed the Tiger springs on my Alpine, I did not cut any
of the coils off. Once installed, the ride height was incredibly high,
maybe 2-3 inches higher than before. By removing one coil it does lower
more than the stock ride height but still provides a decent ride.
Anyway, thats the world how I see it.
Ted Reese
'66 Alpine
/ Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: 15 May 96 12:11:49 EDT
From: Jay Laifman <JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com>
To: <reesee@ucs.orst.edu>, <ALPINES@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Re:sway bars
Ted writes:
"Alpine and Tiger springs look identical but Tiger spring is stiffer to
support the HEAVY V8 on top of them. How much stiffer I am not sure. The
springs that CAT sells are A LOT stiffer, something like 325 in-lbs. This
may be enough to shake the car apart. I would not recommend this setup
unless you are going full race."
>From what I understand from Rick, although Sunbeam made the Tiger springs
of thicker rod, they made less revolutions per inch, or visa versa or
something like that, resulting in the springs doing about the same thing.
He said Sunbeam intended for the Tiger to squeeze the springs more than
the Alpine and have a lower front end.
Now, let me see if I have the height problem correct. With my car I
installed the CAT rubber isolator on top of the spring, which I now
understand raises the car a little. The reason is that the rubber is
thicker, which causes the spring to compress more, which causes the spring
to be more stiff, which reduces the effect of the weight of the car on the
suspension, which leaves the car up a little higher -- which all makes
sense for a Tiger that sits too low, but not an Alpine which was just
right in the first place. Right? There are two options: 1. get the
Sunbeam Specialties rubber which is the right size (but which will
soften the front end by loosening the springs), 2. get some Ford piece
which is a little smaller yet - it's listed in the CAT Shop Notes.
Jay
Jay S. Laifman
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
1999 Avenue of the Stars
Los Angeles, California 90067
(310) 201-8915
` Received: from b17a_pn.b17a.ingr.com by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: 09 Aug 95 16:19:36 EDT
From: JLAIFMAN <JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com>
To: <lytebrite@cinenet.net>, <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: RE: Holbay questions
FORWARDED MESSAGE from Wyndham Chow (MAIL @ CSERVE
{INTERNET:lytebrite@cinenet.net}) at 8/9/95 1:37p
50515)
-eef)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 10:24:36 -0800
To: JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com
From: lytebrite@cinenet.net (Wyndham Chow)
Subject: Holbay questions
I, too, have a Series V Alpine and was wondering where you found Holbay
specs. I would like to increase the Umph without going to the Ford
dealership. Any background on your rebuild/tuning would be appreciated.
***** NOTES from JLAIFMAN (JLAIFMAN @ PNM) at 8/9/95 11:09a
Wyndham -
In my earlier e-mail, I listed the items needed for the Holbay
conversion. I realize now that I omitted a pointless ignition -- I forget
the name, but it is not the Crane one and I was advised that it is much
better. I think it is by "Illumination" - or something like that. I will
check if anyone want to know.
As to the Holbay conversion, I bought the head and the cam from Sunbeam
Specialties. When I bought them, they were the last ones Rick had,
although he may have obtained more since. Holbay is actually a going
concern in England that builds all types of performance engines and may be
able to provide new heads and cams (you can find their number in many of
the English car magazines). The Holbay H120 was a Chrysler/Rootes car
that used the Alpine block with the modifications I mentioned. It had 120
horsepower. The engine was mounted on a slant so the original manifold
will not work. One needs to find an aftermarket manifold. I got the
Webers (new) and the manifold from a group here in Los Angeles, but I will
not give their name because I do not want to give them further business
since their support after I paid them was non-existent. Alternatives are
Pierce Manifolds in Northern California at (408) 842-6667 and TWM in Santa
Barbara at (805) 967-9478 (from where I believe my place got the
manifold).
Forget any linkage package anyone sells you. The best is to
make a cable mechanism. There are also various issues along the way, such
as changing the brake master cylinder, bending the diagonal tubular brace
on the right side to clear the air cleaners (as done on the Le Mans
Alpines with dual Webers), and finding the right jetting (I used what was
suggested from a Lotus application, and it idles beautifully and seems to
be smooth throughout the rpm range). All that being said, I have heard
that an easy alternative is to get a Series IV manifold and install it
with a single down-draft Weber. But, the way I see it there just is no
substitute for dual Webers.
If you have any other questions, just let me know.
Jay Laifman.
æ
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Date: 10 Aug 95 17:01:41 EDT
From: JLAIFMAN <JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com>
To: <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Holbay vs. Tiger
In the Horn article mentioned by Dick Sanders, the author made the
argument that a fully uprated Holbay Alpine would be faster and handle
better than a Tiger, given the 400 less pounds and better weight
distribution. As a result, the Holbay Alpine has greater horsepower per
pound. All that being said, I'm sure a Tiger with similar upgrades would
not bother looking back at the Holbay Alpine. As to the smaller intake
holes, I reopened and polished the holes, along with the manifold, to
properly match the Webers. We changed the jetting to fit the Webers to
fit the engine. Altough jetting Webers is a life-long project, I have to
say I have no complaints yet (I'll let you know what happens when the
barometer changes).
In response to Dick Sanders' correct comment about whether the
lightened flywheel came on the Holbay car, I should clarify my previous
comment about my Holbay upgrades. I listed many of the changes I made to
my car, not all of which were Holbay based. To further set the record
straight, I have new Webers (40 DCOE 151's) which are upgraded from the
ones available for the original Holbay H120 cars (I've been told that the
only earlier Webers one should use are the 40 DCOE 18's - which may even
have a better idle circuit). I was not able to obtain the original
distributor, so I had my original weights and springs replaced to make the
distributor a mechanical one. The Bosch coil, the electric ignition, the
larger radiator, and the fuel pump are new and I have no knowledge of what
Holbay used (I got the fuel pump - and new master cylinder - from Pegasus
Racing). Additionally, the flywheel and engine were dynamically balanced
-- which I would most definitely suggest is crucial if one is to undertake
such modifications. I also had the crank and other parts "Koolcased"
(similar to "Tuftrided"), which hardens the surface.
} Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in5.ibm.net id 875650305.42156-1 ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:11:45 +0000
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca
Subject: Re: it's always PSI with you guys...
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:07:00 -0700
Jerome,
>What kind of computing gear does this involve? E.g., what did you use
to
>program your EFI system? Some kind of IC designer or some engine design
>thing?
It uses a NEC V25 Microcontroller, had 128KB of battery backed
SRAM, and 256K of ROM.
The NEC V series micros are 80x86 derivitaves with all the peripheral
components needed to make something usefull.
I added 12 channels of 12 bit A/D, stepper motor drivers, two
16 bit counters for injector timers and other little knick knacks.
The system derives volume flow by engine rate and manifold pressure.
It also has a volumetric efficiency table to "tweak" out the
non-linearities
associated with this approach.
Temperature "air density" compensation, and an O2 sensor round out
the basic control strategy.
A throttle position sensor is used to derive rate of change info about
additional transient fuel requirements due to the manifold capacitance.
The system is a carryover from an injection computer I designed
so now I own the technology.
It was programmed using PC based tools, and a code relocation
utility "for ROMIng the code" , using a "C" compiler, and native 8088
assembly instructions.
Worked very well.
Eventually I will take my DCOE inlet, and weld some bosses
into it, and use the carbs as air dooors, and have a quick change
EFI/Carbie setup.
But for now the old EFI manifold sits on a shelf in my garage.
Jarrid
W Received: from b17a_pn.b17a.ingr.com by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
Date: 11 Aug 95 12:55:02 EDT
From: JLAIFMAN <JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com>
To: <rexfunk@ni.net>, <ALPINES@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Alpine Alternator
FORWARDED MESSAGE from "Rex A. Funk" (MAIL @ CSERVE
{INTERNET:rexfunk@ni.net}) at 8/11/95 12:34a
TO: JLAIFMAN@PNM, MAIL@CSERVE {INTERNET:ALPINES@AUTOX.TEAM.NET}
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 21:10:28 PDT
From: "Rex A. Funk" <rexfunk@ni.net>
Subject: RE: Alpine Alternator
To: JLAIFMAN <JLAIFMAN@pnm.mhs.compuserve.com>, alpines@autox.team.net
Now I've got a few for JLAIFMAN. Did you do anything to the compression
ratio of your Holbayized Series V, or is it essentially stock? I'm assuming
the Holbay cam provides high lift to get the gas mixture into the cylinders.
Are you experiencing rough idle because of the cam? How wild would you
say the cam is? How is your gas mileage? Have you done any 0-60 or 1/4
mile tests? And finally, how is your driveline holding up (clutch, trans,
rear end). Take care, and keep 'em running.
-------------------------------------
Name: Rex Funk
E-mail: rexfunk@ni.net
Date: 04/16/95
Time: 22:03:41
This message was sent by Chameleon -------------------------------------
***** NOTES from JLAIFMAN (JLAIFMAN @ PNM) at 8/11/95 9:08a
As to the exiter wire, I have a tech tip from the Tigers East/Alpines
East newsletter by Nick O'Dell. He used a standard AC Delco alternator and
had the same problem you mentioned about the running on. Rather than a
relay, he installed an in-line diode (Radio Shack part # 276-1141) which
also solved the problem. He also mentioned that the diode only works one
way. So if the problem persists, reverse the diode.
As to my Holbay engine, I only have about 500 miles on it since the
rebuild. So, I have not really pushed it yet to give you any absolute
figures on acceleration and wear and tear. My foot has gotten a little
heavier though and I can feel the additional power throughout the rpm
range. It idles beautifully, compared to both how it used to idle and
other cars in general. The cam I have is the H120 cam which works as
follows: In opens BTDC 58; In closes ABCD 66; Ex opens BBDC 84; Ex Closes
ATDC 40; and lift is 0.33. A stock Series V cam is: 29, 63, 69, 23, and
0.298, respectively. Basically, the cam is not "wild" but more
sport/rally. The pistons were specially made at 0.050 over (1777.33 cc)
and dished to provide 9.5:1 compression. Stock Holbay is 9.6:1 and stock
Alpine is 9.2:1. In addition, I had the head valve seats and guides
re-ground using modern methods to further boost performance. Although
wilder cams and compression ratios are out there, my goal, and I believe
the end result, was to provide a decent increase in horsepower without
losing much reliability or drivability. If I wanted the fastest car out
there, well, I guess an Alpine would not be where I would start. This is
a car I plan on driving until the government will not let me any more, and
maybe then some. If logic had anything to do with any of this, we
probably would not have Alpine's in the first place (or anything else I
would classify as "fun"). So as a corollary to your ending comment -- Keep
'em running with a smile on you face (and bugs in your teeth if possible)!
Jay Laifman
Ô Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by alpine.b17a.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
From: DSand95510@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 03:30:05 -0400
To: ALPINES@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: rear sway bar?
In a message dated 96-05-14 00:51:44 EDT, reesee@ucs.orst.edu (Ted Reese)
writes:
>Jay, you are right, by stiffening one end, you will also soften the other.
>The book "Vintage Racing British Sports Cars" goes into good detail on the
>Alpine and Tiger as to what current vintage racers are doing. One of the
>first mods is to install tiger front springs (as the Alpines have a
>tendency to be soft from the factory) with one coil cut off. This will
>also lower the car. A good example would be my a picture of my car on
>the Alpine web page. A larger front sway bar is also installed, and as
>I remember no rear bar is added as it induces oversteer. Anyway, this
>solution may not be perfect for everyone, but it produced a stable and
>neutral handling car that is probably faster that a Tiger in an
>autocross.
>
>
Haven't tried Tiger springs on my Series V yet, but I do recommend using the
rear sway bar. In stock configuration, the Alpine is a very neutral handling
car. Installing a larger 7/8" front bar gives greater stability, but
increases understeer. A rear bar will bring it back closer to being in
'balance', which it did on my Alpine when I re-installed the rear bar before
an autocross recently. Just remember (as I should've a few years ago) not to
drive your Alpine on nasty mountain logging roads afterwards. It'll rip the
rear bar mounts apart very quickly.
Dick Sanders
P.S. Has anyone ever seen Wally Swift's setup on his Series V autocrosser?
One rear bar, and TWO front bars - held together with hose clamps!!!
[ Received: from ciao-intranet ([129.135.4.2]) by alpine.iss.ingr.com (5.65c/1.921207)
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@unit.com>
To: "'Alpine Subscribers'" <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: Hipo Alpine stuff
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:34:00 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Alpiners,
Here is a partial list of what you need to put on your
X-Mas list.
Buy The ARP rod bolts, Shot peen the rods, then re-size the
big ends.
Procure a good cam shaft, have it ground to specs that meet
your driving needs. I have specs that will likely be suitable.
Striving for 130+ BHP in a street driven car will reward niether
you as a driver, nor the car for its efforts, and shorter life.
If the power range, that you select puts power beyond 6000RPM,
you must also change the springs to higher rates. ISKY sells
suitible springs.
Have your crankshaft thoroughly inspected and magnafluxed.
Open #2 and #3 oil feeds in the crank.
Lighten your flywheel, and have the the crank, flywheel and HB
zero ballanced as a set.
Have some flat top pistons made up, and use 3.247 moly rings.
This will still give you 2 potential rebuilds "3 builds", even though
you are starting at .037 over.
Why .037?
It is a metric bore, but it is the closest bore available that will
allow
you to use off the shelf moly piston rings.
Your head, should have new valves installed if needed, but
definately use new guides. Be certain that the rockers dont
have valve stem grooves in them, they will, so just replace
them win a used set that doesnt.
Get a 3 angle valve job.
Port match the intake and exhaust to the head ports.
Perform intake and exhaust port modification per Rootes SII
tuining manual (other istructions also exist).
Deshroud the intake valve in the combution chamber, then
volume match each combution chamber.
I dont have my volume analisys data with me, but there is
a final combustion chamber volume to strive for.
You should shoot for a compression ratio of 10/1.
With this compression, your old distributor will work well
without the mechanical advance. use the 26 deg advance
counterweights if possible, and have the distributor advance
verified at a distributor shop.
1592 engines should use 1725 oil pumps with 1592 distributor
drive cogs.
Perform adjustable oil pressure relief valve mod.
Use an oil cooler (dont use the SV setup it is inadequate).
The above combo COULD net you in the 125 BHP range with
dual webers, but probably only 110 BHP with strombergs.
Those fortunate enough to own a solex manifold would do
well considering the use of a 40DGAF bolt on, as it is very
tunable, and flows way more than a 32/36 progressive weber.
This doesnt talk about building a monster motor, because
even these opperations will cost around $2000.
I did all the above on my last motorr (125BHP=B1)
This motor is borderline as a street car as the engine
fails to make torque below 3000 RPM, and requires somewhat
of a launch to get the car going. SV 7 1/2 inch clutches just
love that too.
It turns out that the head cost more than any other opperation
on my engine. Huge valves and thier associated costs
will push the average budget through the roof, and into orbit.
BTW Ramon, it turns out that that head cost me over $1200.
valve cost after modification was $50, and you dont want to
know what it cost to put those seats in.
Ö Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in1.ibm.net id 876845908.87972-1 ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:18:28 +0000
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: "'alpine clan'" <alpines@autox.team.net>
Subject: 150BHP Alpine motor stats
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:58:00 -0700
Alpine listers,
For those of you following my alpine motor buildup, here's some
new info.
For those who are not, read no further.
I am in the process of final assembly of the engine now.
Photographs have been taken for posterity, and I decided
to gauge my efforts by weighing all the reciprocating parts
Part Name Stock 92BHP 1725 150 BHP 1725
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- ---------------
Con Rods 752 G 681 G
Wrist Pin 135 G 118 G
Piston 436.5 G 343 G
Intake Valve 80 G 78.5 G
Exhaust Valve 65 G 76.5 G
Flywheel+clutch 32lb 1oz(SV)/ 39lb 1oz(SII) 26lb 0oz
The engine was fully balanced, rods matched bearings mic'd for
race clearances. Engine crank, pistons, rods, pins, flywheel+clutch
harmonic balance ECT all went to the balance shop, and came
back matched.
The clutch is a custom McLeod piece having a replaceable
diaphragm spring, a floating driven plate, shimmed offset force,
and a iron/copper 4 puck sprung hub. A through out thrust plate
was installed to the diaphragm so the stock alpine TO bearing
could be used.
The head uses the largest possible valves that can be installed
into a rootes head "valve seats are interlocked".
Intake valve is 1.600 and exhaust valve is 1.400.
Stock is 1.490 in, 1.290 exh.
The valve guides have been modified to accept readily availably
guide seals.
the con rod is a carrillo 8740 forging with 6.0 inch length as opposed
to 5.625 as stock on the SV motor. The rod uses 7/16 inconel cap bolts,
and the rod was widened to the alpine rod spec.
The block had to be slightly modified to allow the larger rods
to clear the block nearby the oil pump.
Forged pistons were made to accept the longer rod. The pistons use
stock chevy wrist pins and 82.5 mm metric moly rings. The rings are
from some exotic toyota 1600 cc formula engine.
The pistons and rods must be installed from the crank side of the
block becuase the big ends of the con rods are larger than the
bores. This procedure is magic.
The head was modified to use the huge valves, ports opened up.
Intake and exhausts are port matched to the head, and the combustion
chamber was modified to deshroud both intake and exhaust valves
in the head. The head was NOT modified to holbay specs, as the
larger valves and the higher flow numbers do not need the same
level of modification as does a Holbay head. Emphasis was placed
on keeping as much of the squish zone "flat face on head" intact for
maximum compresion turbulence. Net compression ratio will be
10.7/1.
Camshaft is a 240int/250exh @.050 on 111 deg centers.
Engine should produce 138 lb ft of torque at its 5200 RPM torque
peak. Peak BHP should be 153 BHP at 7500 RPM, where the
engine still makes 107 lb ft of torque.
This is all I have for now, BTW, the bore is still within Rootes specs,
so this is not one of the fames 2 liter alpine motors here, but wow
if it was.
Jarrid Gross
Ô Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in7.ibm.net id 878920710.99770-1 ; Fri, 07 Nov 1997 16:38:30 +0000
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca
Subject: Re: Roll bar dims
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 08:34:00 -0800
Jerome,
>Do or would you make your EFI mod plans available? A fellow started
with
>the garage I use. He's been into American cars (30s - 60s) for since a
>teenager, restoring and chopping. He saw my car and fell in love, and
is
>now looking for an Alpine. We were talking, and I mentioned that
various
>people put other engines in them, and one person (you) even did an EFI
>modification. His eyes went REAL BIG and he got REAL EXCITED. It sounds
>like he'd be up to most of the work, and I would be interested in
>helping him and doing the computer end. Are you interested in testing
>your design on another car? With this fellow around, and your
>snap-on/snap-off carburettor/EFI setup, I'd consider doing one for my
>car too.
The system was a protoytpe, wire wraped and bailing wire.
Me thinks that a TBI system would be more inexpensive and
simpler to make.
Here, you would use a junk yarb 1BBL TBI airdoor with integral
injector, TPS, fuel regulator, and speed control.
The only other thing you would need is a proper fuel pump.
A bolt on adapter could easily be made to adapt the manifold
to the TBI airdoors.
In this way the system can be bolted onto a normally carbutetted
engine.
If you want to go the way that I am, you will need a $300 USD manifold
as well as two $250 DCOE webers.
This gives you a very quick change from EFI to carburretion,
plus the raw performance potential you get with the DCOEs.
I really dont have the time right now to assist in making a new
computer.
My old one will soon come out of the car, and then I will have to build
another one. The old one is just too much work maintaining for
development as the debugging is done without emulator or debug
moniter. The program is in 80x86 assembly, and pretty tough to
follow.
My next ECU will use a very FASSSSST PIC processorm for which
I have an emulator. The language of choice will be "C".
Unfortunately I have not yet designed the system, or written a stich
of code for it.
I tried unsucessfully a few years ago to "market" an alpine EFI
setup, and got a lot of inquiries, but no real interest.
I abandoned the project and just built my own.
Alpiners are super cheap, and now with the emmisions
laws lightening up a little :for now", there is no practical
reason to use EFI other than drivability and engine
longevity.
Jarrid
Ç Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in4.ibm.net id 878930424.117876-1 ; Fri, 07 Nov 1997 19:20:24 +0000
From: "Jarrid Gross (Yorba Linda, CA)" <GROSS@UNIT.COM>
To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca
Subject: Re: Roll bar dims
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 11:16:00 -0800
>Well I'd like to keep in touch on this. Up here we have no emissions
>laws - if you can get insured you can get registration, and getting
>insurance just involves a check of driving record. I'm interested in it
>because James seems knowledgeable and interested enough to do it, and
>I'd like to see (help) it being done.
>
>Where would a guy look to get more acquainted with this stuff?
I know of a homebrew EFI web page, I'll see if I can locate the URL.
Hardware wise, you need a CPU with several timers for the
pulse length control, at least 5 channels of 12 bit a/d, a serial
communications port "for programming", some non volitile memory
and possibly a stepper motor control setup so that you can control
the idle speed with the ECU.
You will of course need some analog cicuitry, but not much.
The ECU must be wired directly to the battery, with a local power
relay that runs off the ignition. Wiring is so because the battery
acts as a surge suppresor, when the starter is spinning down.
The wiring at the starter can produce something like 250 volts
I used feedtrhough connectors to keep the EMI from getting into
the analog trons section. This is helpfull when the guy next to you
on the track is running solid plug wires. Plug wires are great
radio transmitter antennea.
The software is pretty straight foreward, but requires a fairly high
data aq rate to prevent engine harmonic effects from aliasing the
conversion rate.
there is a little math to be done here such as differentiation
and digital filtratration, but the math can be pure integers of
various sizes, so coding complexity is not so bad.
Engines are remarkably tolerant to bad fuel control, so
even the most primitive control strategy should function
with the proper injection gain parameters.
Use of an EGO can allow full closed loop control, but the
engine must be able to run well open loop before this
feature should be implimented to guarantee that the
systems dynamic gain function is appropriate.
I once thought about making a "bolt on" for SU's and
strombergs to incorperate the MG croud too, but all the
local MG parts distributors were hell bent for originality
and wouldnt consider even trying the system out.
Oh well, EFI is not for everyone, or anyone for that matter.
Jarrid
– Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in4.ibm.net id 880652844.116552-1 ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:47:24 +0000
From: jarrid_gross@juno.com
To: LOsoccer@aol.com
Subject: Re: engine rebuild
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:48:56 EST
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:32:16 EST LO soccer <LOsoccer@aol.com> writes:
>OK i bought the Series II special tuning book from Sunbeam
>Specialities. I
>got better info when I built my Fiat 850 race car. Are any of the
>parts
>listed in the book still available, or does anybody have
>specifications for
>flywheel lighting, cam design, valve spring tension etc. Forza had an
>excellant book on modifing the Fiat engine. Any information to start
>tracking northwest connections are appreciated.
>
>david in L.O. Oregon
The Series II tuning book gives a number of really important tips that
are just about mandatory for building up a hipo SII, but I would treat
it more as a refference book than anything else.
The linkage mods are really important, as is the engine torque retraint.
If you are goona be making some corner G's, the baffles in the axle
are important too. To keep the front cover from filling with oil,
head the blanking plate cover mod.
Few if any of the parts are still available, but the specs for the
original cam "as they saw it", are published in the book.
After some listers took interest in reproducing the series II competition
sway bar last year, Sunbeam Specialties now stocks them, and I am
happy to say it fits perfectly.
Jets and stuff like that may me available, but most builders would be
more inclined to dump the OEM carbs in favour of dual sidedraught
DCOE webers "Hartwell option".
As for springs ECT, If you use standard valves, the valves dont float
untill 6000 RPM, and the bottom end wont take more revs anyhow,
so most will agree that standard springs are just fine.
If your ambitions go beyond making a strong 6000 RPM motor,
then you are going beyond what the factory invisioned for this motor,
and thus outside the scope of the tuning manual.
As for the flywheel, I sent my clutch and flywheel to McLeod clutches,
and they grafted a hipo single disc 8 inch clutch from a formula atlantic
engine. The clutch is made from billet aluminum, and is so much smaller
in OD than even the 7 and 1/2 inch piece, that they were able to take
a huge ring out of the outer diameter of the flyweel. The clutch and
flywheel lost 14 lbs, and the inertial effect is even more significant as
the mass was removed from the outside of the clutch.
There are people who have livened the Rootes motors up, and even
race various Rootes cars. Some of which are on this list.
Also, I have procurred "through hook and crook" an extensive list
of performance writeups on the alpine engine.
I would say that specific information requirements might be directed
toward the list. Someone out there will have some usefull info,
if not a really good opinion.
Jarrid Gross
61 SII B9116899 OD LRX
Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in1.ibm.net id 885538516.115458-1 ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:55:16 +0000
From: jarrid_gross@juno.com
To: rootes@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Alpine cam grinds, etc.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:50:28 EST
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:22:05 -0800 Steve Sage <rootes@ix.netcom.com>
writes:
>Here's my tech question. I am getting my 1725 engine rebuilt and now
>find the camshaft needs to be re-ground. I've gone all the way in the
>piston dept. and have installed the 60 over pistons. I'm running the
>southern California). I'd like to increase low end acceleration as
>much
>as possible while still having a good "top" end and reasonable idle,
>which I know is everyone's ideal.
By cam alone, it is not possible to get more low end torque without
sacrificing top
end power. This is the sacrifice we make when tuning with the cam.
The 60 over pistons help with both displacement, and added compression.
Compression will give you power across the revs though.
Do a little head work, port the intake and exhaust to the head ports.
Put in flat tops, or mill the head.
Buy a header from S.S. "Be sure it fits and doesnt leak".
This will gain you 10 lb ft of torque and get you to about 100BHP.
If this is not quite what you had in mind, you can augment the added
compression with a little camming, to get to around 110 BHP.
Yes, the idle will be a little lumpier, the low end will be a little
missing,
but the top end will be a plenty.
I have two recipees for cams.
1) Street/strip 265i/275e 1000RPM idle 2500 to 6500 power band
224,232 @.050
~110BHP to 120BHP
In my car right now.
2) Race/rally 295i/305e 1200RPM? idle 3500 to 8000 power band
234,246 @.050
~140BHP to 150BHP
Just about ready for dyno.
Jarrid Gross
Ê Received: from tibalt.supernet.ab.ca [198.161.21.5] by in6.ibm.net id 891389490.94602-1 ; Wed, 01 Apr 1998 00:11:30 +0000
From: MrZAG57 <MrZAG57@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:11:21 EST
To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca
Subject: Re: Re: compression, pistons and octane rating
In a message dated 3/31/98 2:10:37 AM, you wrote:
<< Would you have a set of grind specs that would work well for a
daily (city) driver that would work OK for a summer-time tourer?>>
The camshaft which was offered in the " Factory " Series 2 Alpine Tuning Kit
had the following valve timings:
Inlet Opens 25 BTDC
Inlet Closes 59 ABDC
Exhaust Opens 63 BBDC
Exhaust Closes 21 ATDC
I had one of these in a Series 2. Very Satisfactory. A rally or race cam would
not give you the drive ability that this grind will. You will also notice a
distinct improvement in all ranges of power. Don't over rev, YES there will be
that temptation, but don't, and it will be very reliable.
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